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Forums › DEALS › Virtual & Physical Music Gear Deals › What’s On Your Black Friday Wish List? Latest Update
My Black Friday wish list has been evolving / morphing. Here’s where it’s at now. Please share your list and maybe we can look out for one another.
MAYBE ITEMS (unsure)
How about you? And have you already picked up some good deals you want to tell us about? It’s crazy how many great deals are already live. Clearly, A LOT of developers had the same idea, to get a head start on Black Friday by starting their sales in early November to grab as much of our cash as possible. There’s no question that this is the best time of year to buy audio plugins, sample libraries, DAWs and everything related to music making, and, subsequently, the hardest time to resist buying. If you’re in the resist category, there’s A LOT of Black Friday freebies this year. Scan the forum and check the freebies forum and my two curated lists of the best free sample sample libraries for Kontakt and the best free sample libraries for free samplers.
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Musio 1 at 149 is a no brainer. “Too bad” I have it already.
Since I think I’ve got strings covered for a while and percussion too, I was hoping for some good brass/woodwinds deals. Something that goes into no brainer impulse buy territory. No idea what libraries I’m looking for though.
Looking forward to see this year’s Spitfire bundles as I think they’ve provided decent value for me.
Thinking about Arturia upgrades.
Hoping UA offers a further discount on UAD Signature Edition 2.
Other than that, ready for maybe a few surprise buys if something amazing goes into deep discounts. Or maybe I’ll just get some fab filter stuff, since I don’t have any. Saturn 2 seemed interesting and not sure if I’ve got anything that compares.
Musio 1 at 149 is a no brainer. “Too bad” I have it already.
Since I think I’ve got strings covered for a while and percussion too, I was hoping for some good brass/woodwinds deals. Something that goes into no brainer impulse buy territory. No idea what libraries I’m looking for though.
Looking forward to see this year’s Spitfire bundles as I think they’ve provided decent value for me.
Thinking about Arturia upgrades.
Hoping UA offers a further discount on UAD Signature Edition 2.
Other than that, ready for maybe a few surprise buys if something amazing goes into deep discounts. Or maybe I’ll just get some fab filter stuff, since I don’t have any. Saturn 2 seemed interesting and not sure if I’ve got anything that compares.
I’d love to get your thoughts on how the Musio player is and the libraries play in it as compared to Kontakt, @Kirean
Do you find, for example, the Tina Guo solo cello sample library is highly usable and thorough enough to sound realistic when played alone or with say one other instrument like piano or acoustic in comparison to other Kontakt cello libraries? I know that Cinesamples removed a lot from the Kontakt libraries in terms of velocity layers, round robins, etc. from what I read and I’ve never seen a comparison to the scripting — which, IMO, is really important to string libraries achieving realism in real-time performances.
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I’d love to get your thoughts on how the Musio player is and the libraries play in it as compared to Kontakt.
I’m not sure if I’m the right person to ask, since I barely know what I’m doing.
So from my limited experience doing anything other than unbearable noise, the few times I’ve compared the libraries between Musio and Kontakt running the same notes, they’ve sounded similar enough. With Tina Guo for example it’s a bit tricky to compare the two since the default settings can be quite different (delay, etc) and some of the patches aren’t exactly one to one, and the overall operation can vary slightly between the two versions. (For example: I think on some Voxos patches Musio uses keyswitches for switching vowels whereas Kontakt utilizes the mod wheel.)
There’s some really random differences as well. Unless I’m going insane and have missed something obvious, I noticed that on Kontakt the Tina Guo spicatto patch has two more notes below C2 that aren’t there on Musio.
Playability at the most basic level at least has been similar though. I haven’t really noticed difference in RR or velocity. But remember: I can’t play for s…. so those more qualified probably have slightly more nuanced and a lot more informed takes.
The thing in Musio’s benefit though is that once you figure out the layout, it’s quite fast to go from library to another and ‘just play’. The Kontakt versions do tend to have a bit more features, at least as far as mics/mixes/special features & controls/options go. Musio also has libraries that don’t seem to be available for Kontakt (world instruments, women of the north choir, etc).
Anyway. Take whatever I wrote above with a grain of salt.
I’d love to get your thoughts on how the Musio player is and the libraries play in it as compared to Kontakt.I’m not sure if I’m the right person to ask, since I barely know what I’m doing.
So from my limited experience doing anything other than unbearable noise, the few times I’ve compared the libraries between Musio and Kontakt running the same notes, they’ve sounded similar enough. With Tina Guo for example it’s a bit tricky to compare the two since the default settings can be quite different (delay, etc) and some of the patches aren’t exactly one to one, and the overall operation can vary slightly between the two versions. (For example: I think on some Voxos patches Musio uses keyswitches for switching vowels whereas Kontakt utilizes the mod wheel.)
There’s some really random differences as well. Unless I’m going insane and have missed something obvious, I noticed that on Kontakt the Tina Guo spicatto patch has two more notes below C2 that aren’t there on Musio.
Playability at the most basic level at least has been similar though. I haven’t really noticed difference in RR or velocity. But remember: I can’t play for s…. so those more qualified probably have slightly more nuanced and a lot more informed takes.
The thing in Musio’s benefit though is that once you figure out the layout, it’s quite fast to go from library to another and ‘just play’. The Kontakt versions do tend to have a bit more features, at least as far as mics/mixes/special features & controls/options go. Musio also has libraries that don’t seem to be available for Kontakt (world instruments, women of the north choir, etc).
Anyway. Take whatever I wrote above with a grain of salt.
Thanks, @Kirean, that’s super helfpul. I’m not looking for it to be identical to Kontakt. I care about if you can pull off a similarly realistic performance in real time and how playable it is. From what you just wrote, it sounds like it checks those boxes. And at $150 US, that’s a pretty insane deal just to get a few of those libraries. I mean really, if Piano and Blue and the two Tina Guo libraries sound and play well, I’d feel like that was a great deal right there. So getting everything else too, that’s just crazy. It’s really a reflection of what’s going on in the sample development world with pricing. It’s obviously not hitting every category and the most obvious super deep discounting has been from 8Dio / SoundPaint and Cinesamples / Musio (I’ve done paid consulting to the former). It’s even causing both of these developers to face some pretty vicious attacks, some of it with completely false information the competitor attacking them knows to be false, but he has a platform with more than half a million visitors per month, so it’s powerful and may be able to do serious harm to competitors and scare other developers and contractors from working with them — which is what he tried to do personally with me with 8Dio (I don’t know Mike / Cinesamples, just other developers that know him, but I know he makes excellent sample libraries).
So yeah, I have a ton of 8Dio / SoundPaint libraries (and I did before consulting to them) and I have all of Cinesamples Kontakt freebies, which are a pretty darn compelling testimony that they make excellent libraries. My only hesitation has been because they’re not using the Kontakt ecosystem – and, of course, we have their competitor Mike Greene slamming them and spreading rumors that they’re going under whereas with his competitor 8Dio, he was spreading lies that he knew to be lies — I can say that first hand from our communications — and then he attempted to persuade me not to consult with them, just like he’s tried to persuade developers not to release libraries via their forum. With a platform of more than half a million visitors each month, he can do a lot of harm to these competitors, and the motive is really all about that they’ve been dramatically lowering their prices and the guy feels it’s harming the business, that it’s making it a lot harder for him to compete. Welcome to the business world. But I’m going to be dead honest, when Greene starts those rumors about 8Dio, Cinesamples and other competitors, it can result in people being afraid to buy from them and it can make his fiction a reality. So that does concern me. I think Greene’s efforts can end up harming Cinesamples’ business, which wouldn’t be a problem for Musio users IF the libraries ran on the Kontakt platform, but because they don’t, it is a concern, TBH. Maybe I should shoot Mike Patti an email and invite him to come to this forum — being totally candid about that.
While this community’s top priority are musicians who use sample libraries and plugins, developers are welcome here and there is a benefit to having their participation, as long as they don’t see this as a place only to hype their products or attempt to use shills or puppets. So yes, forgive me for thinking out loud, I’m at least going to fly the idea past Mike Patti. Like many developers, he might be afraid to address the attacks on his business from Mike Greene, fearing it will only worsen things and result in even more attacks. But I’m at least going to reach out and give him the chance to message here if he so desires.
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@kirean, does Musio Voxos have the phrase builder? If not, then this is a huge difference between Cinesamples Voxos and Musio Voxos.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
@kirean, does Musio Voxos have the phrase builder? If not, then this is a huge difference between Cinesamples Voxos and Musio Voxos.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
Apparently no. Many on KVR are discussing the limitations imposed on Musio
@kirean, does Musio Voxos have the phrase builder? If not, then this is a huge difference between Cinesamples Voxos and Musio Voxos.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
I haven’t really taken a deep dive on how the phrasebuilder works in Kontakt for Voxos.
But quickly looking at it now, I’d say that larry’s findings are most likely the correct observation.
In Musio’s instrument settings, there isn’t really a way to line-up different phrases like in the phrasebuilder patch (for Kontakt) where you get the separate timeline edit for each following keypress.
The Musio keyswitch patches allow some switcharoos (and they have some singular phrase patches you might also utilize), but that’s about it. I’m not completely sure as I didn’t go through every patch, but I also feel like Musio might be missing a few phrases.
I’d say in a sense the quick comparison would be that it’s kinda like Arturia’s Analog Lab vs V Collection, where you get the more deeper controls for the singular instruments to tweak around.
@kirean, does Musio Voxos have the phrase builder? If not, then this is a huge difference between Cinesamples Voxos and Musio Voxos.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
Apparently no. Many on KVR are discussing the limitations imposed on Musio
That is not surprising considering the price difference. Cinesamples Voxos is $700+ by itself.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
On some instruments (like with Voxos) there’s a clear distinction to be made but for others, the loss of extra controls doesn’t really show up, at least in my own use. I just did some comparison between some of the brass instruments, and unless you really needed the extra mic positions and mixes, the difference appeared to be kinda minimal. Naturally, your mileage may wary.
For 149 I simply can’t think of too many better deals that I’ve come across in my two full years of looking/buying/playing. You basically get playable/usable versions of all cinesamples libraries for the price of a decent library on deep discount.
I personally paid quite a bit more last year and wouldn’t have minded the extra dough, yet I find it really hard to complain. Especially since they’ve been adding to the library and making improvements based on feedback.
@kirean, does Musio Voxos have the phrase builder? If not, then this is a huge difference between Cinesamples Voxos and Musio Voxos.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
For $149 for their catalog of libraries, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that. I have zero problems with that. What I am a bit disappointed in the reality of — and why I felt it was important to just share it is that I know how Mike Green (VI-Control) operates. I know how he has little regard for truth or ethics when trying to bring down a competitor, how he tries to use people to spread damaging lies. He tried to use me. But the reality of the situation is, I know that one of the Mikes left Cinesamples and it did make me wonder if they could be in trouble. Greene plays off of the rumor mill, maybe even some speculation I personally did, and he exploited that to use his more than half million visitor per month platform to spread speculation that Cinesamples may be on the verge of going under. He’s a former corporate marketing VP of a mid size firm, and he’s exactly the kind of marketing manager that inspired me to write that resulted in Wharton’s head of ethics praising my writing, even though I never intended to write on ethics, it was just my passion revealing itself.
So just like last year when I know from our private conversations, Greene knew that he was spreading lies about 8Dio, he saw it as a way to damage their business, to stop developers from releasing Kontakt libraries for their SoundPaint format. And the truth is, it ended up scaring a bunch of Kontakt developers — particularly the Kontakt developers that pay Mike a monthly fee. I’ve had some of those developers tell me that they are afraid to work with 8Dio because of that. They’re afraid that Greene will attack their business if they release a SoundPaint library.
Now Greene is using a very similar strategy to attack Cinesamples, another of his competitors, with Musio, by spreading a rumor on his forum that they may be on the verge of going under. I’m not a lawyer, Fleer is. I’m certain his attacks on 8Dio were in the realm of libel, but the attacks on Cinesamples, I don’t know. They’re at least incredibly unethical. And the truth is, they have affected me. They have caused me to hesitate on picking up Musio. And as a strategist, I know that harmful rumors like this can lead to destroying a business — that is Greene’s intent. You don’t even have to know the guy personally, you can see it in his long rants against 8Dio that he’s furious about 8Dio and Cinesamples deep discounting and feels they’re destroying the industry. I suppose now, part of me wants to pick up Musio’s perpetual license to support them and ensure that Greene’s effort to destroy Mike Patti’s business doesn’t succeed.
As far as not having all of the controls on a single library that sells for far more than $149 US, I don’t really think it’s reasonable to have an expectation it would have those controls. As Doug points out, Voxos sells for more than $700 US. Let’s get with reality. Even for scaled down versions of their libraries, this is, I’m pretty sure, the best deal going in the sample library world today, and it is exactly that which gets a competitor to try to destroy this business.
I think I just convinced myself to buy it.
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I am certainly interested in this as well. One of my most favourite a cappella groups, Voces8, has a library in Musio. I am going to see them in concert next February, a real bucket list event for me. The thought of being able to compose music using their voices is an absolute dream.
My reason for asking the Voxos question was to temper my expectations. I fully expected there to be a difference between the Cinesamples libraries and the Musio libraries. How could there not be. I just wanted to know what they were going in. Knowing the difference in no way decreases the anticipation of having access to such a wide range of high quality instruments. What would have taken some of the shine off of using Musio would have been expecting the full Cinesamples library and finding that there were major limitations. Yes, I am fully aware that it is a very unreasonable expectation.
I have signed up for the free trial. I am about to give it a spin.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
I have signed up for the free trial. I am about to give it a spin.
Absolutely the wisest solution by far. Was going to suggest it earlier but didn’t know if one was available.
I’ve been messing around with Kontakt Player lately. I was thinking about it, but man, the entrance price to the basic Kontakt Full is quite high.
Is there a good strategy for getting into Full Kontakt, for a lowish price? I feel mostly I want it because of stuff I’ve seen from other vendors that require it.
I’ve been messing around with Kontakt Player lately. I was thinking about it, but man, the entrance price to the basic Kontakt Full is quite high.
Is there a good strategy for getting into Full Kontakt, for a lowish price? I feel mostly I want it because of stuff I’ve seen from other vendors that require it.
I’ve known a couple of people who bought used Kontakt license (from forums and one real life friend — who later became a Kontakt developer). You could check out eBay or KnobCloud and see if someone is trying to resell their license (I’d say the LM forum, but we’re just starting out and I still haven’t opened up to the public, although we’re at 1.3k unique visitors per 30 days and growing) — or wait until Kontakt is on sale for half off, then go to the resale market — it gives you a lot more leverage to get a better price.
I believe Kontakt 6 was on sale for $99 USD recently; but because they just released Kontakt 7, I wouldn’t expect it to get that low against any time soon. The next big Kontakt 7 sale, I’d recommend that you either:
(1) Pick up a free Kontakt Player instrument and I think you’ll qualify for an upgrade version of Kontakt. Then do one of the following options:
(A) Buy a license from someone who is reselling theirs. Negotiate! Maybe I should write some tips for people from years of leading marketing at companies and negotiating with vendors and now as a business owner. If it helps people, I’m all for it.
(B) Wait for a 50% off or better deal. Summer is when NI tends to have their big half-off sales, but recently, they’ve been deep discounting directly and through Plugin Boutique and they may put this on sale for Black Friday — but again, pick up a free Kontakt Player library that gets you and upgrade discount (unless NI stopped doing that, but this has been the way people have historically saved a lot of money; I’ve been a Kontakt user since its early days).
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I am certainly interested in this as well. One of my most favourite a cappella groups, Voces8, has a library in Musio. I am going to see them in concert next February, a real bucket list event for me. The thought of being able to compose music using their voices is an absolute dream.
My reason for asking the Voxos question was to temper my expectations. I fully expected there to be a difference between the Cinesamples libraries and the Musio libraries. How could there not be. I just wanted to know what they were going in. Knowing the difference in no way decreases the anticipation of having access to such a wide range of high quality instruments. What would have taken some of the shine off of using Musio would have been expecting the full Cinesamples library and finding that there were major limitations. Yes, I am fully aware that it is a very unreasonable expectation.
I have signed up for the free trial. I am about to give it a spin.
This would be a clever signature if I could think of one.
Report back. I may not even end up biting on this. Heck, with money being tight, I probably shouldn’t. But I am mostly so in love with that Piano in Blue library — I was thinking I would buy it and make it my Christmas present from my family to me.
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Thanks Peter!
Yeah, I should probably just hold out (not like I don’t have enough things to tinker with) the GAS does get pretty intense around this time of year.
I’m probably the worst barterer on the face of the Earth, but the second hand market is a good suggestion. I’ve never really done that with software.
I don’t seem to get any discounted offer with the Player. At least not in the account section.
Thanks Peter!
Yeah, I should probably just hold out (not like I don’t have enough things to tinker with) the GAS does get pretty intense around this time of year.
I’m probably the worst barterer on the face of the Earth, but the second hand market is a good suggestion. I’ve never really done that with software.
I don’t seem to get any discounted offer with the Player. At least not in the account section.
Okay, what you could do is look around at the libraries on NI’s list that do qualify for crossgrade pricing, if you find a Player library you like, watch for it to go cheap on our Buy / Sell Forum, Knobcloud (completely off topic and definitely intended for humor value, but couldn’t the guy have come up with a better name then KnobCloud? I want to erase my browser memory after going to a site with that name in case I croak and my kids see the last site I visited was called “KnobCloud”!). A lot of NI libraries sell very cheap there. Just be careful about sellers (as they may be scammers, even with a high rating, there’s no real vetting system that the raters aren’t sock puppets, so use a payment where you can get your money back if the person is a scammer). I’ve seen some of the Abbey Road Drummer libraries go for as little as $15 US — I picked two of them up for $20 US or $25 US. That would qualify for crossgrade pricing. I doubt Noire (piano) ever goes cheap, but that is my favorite piano library — and you know, I’ve consulted to several developers that have piano libraries and never to NI or Galaxy, so folks that is my honest opinion. I watched a video last night that @Simeon made for NI’s new Claire piano library, and that is definitely on my wish list. It sounds awesome. But if you can pick up NI Maverick, Grandeur or The Gentleman cheap — or all three in a bundle — they’re older libraries, but also made by Galaxy and very nice pianos that I still use regularly. So you can buy a cheap Kontakt Player library you actually want and then wait for a sale on the Kontakt 8 Crossgrade — it’s unlikely to hit the resale market for a while because it was released fairly recently.
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I was looking for a great deal on Omnisphere 2 (max $249).
Tried knobcloud and made an offer, never heard back. Probably for the best, I have so many other tools I need to learn anyway.
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I already did a little shopping with some drum sample packs. And I do have a wishlist, but there’s not much of significance on it to be honest. Lots of stuff there probably won’t be a deal on or the deals are the same year round (so no fomo).
Like some Drumbroker packs. They have the same sale in a couple of months, so I’m probably not going to bite. I am however going for the Production Music Live 2024 bundle. That’s probably the most expensive thing I’ll get at around $200. Orchestral Tools Illuvia if on sale. Kazrog just released a new plugin which won’t be on sale I think, so that’ll have to wait. Maybe maybe The God Particle from Cradle Audio, but I’m perhaps too much on the fence about that one to pull the trigger. Cableguys Snapback looks promising and affordable. Goodhertz Tupe if the price is right (they don’t do very huge sales and it’s still pretty expensive, but I like their stuff).
Overall nothing fancy and a lot of ‘only if the sale is good enough’. Perhaps something like Harmony Bloom or Lunacy Beam, but those don’t break the bank.
Now I do however have very fun hardware things planned. I already upgraded to 2 new cameras recently (both Panasonic Lumix G80/85, both secondhand) for my jams and other stuff I have planned. I’m probably going for a new desk, a proper studio desk. A new pedal, the Empress Echostation. I recently bought the Pulsar 23 secondhand at a fenomenal price!! So that’s absolutely amazing, looking forward to playing with that one. Aaaaannnnddd, to top it all off, with my Christmas bonus I’m looking at either the Vermona PerFOURmer MKII or a classic Juno 106! But, that’ll (both) be secondhand so there has to be a good one available. No hurries there either (both the PerFOURmer or Juno), and I took a little advance on my bonus with the Pulsar 23, it’s not endless.
Which is why I’ve only highlighted 3 things I’m definitely going to get and I probably will be holding off to get the coveted hardware.
I am slowing down my software acquisitions, thank goodness. I am looking for Studio One 7 upgrade (from 6) on sale, but I did just go ahead with the surprise Cubase update to 14, so I should have my fill of DAW exploration for a while. I decided to sell a couple of my guitars this year and blew some of the proceeds on MIDI hardware, so I have been getting into MPE, going overboard on too many VST instruments that ended up being really MEH. SO I will be looking for software tools that really utilize and make implementing MPE a “fun n’ easy” exercise. The best MPE VIs have been the ones I already owned: Arturia (not all MPE but a lot- Love PIgments), U-he (added and adding MPE over time), and Dawsome. Of course I will doubtless succumb to FOMO and buy something that I never looked twice at but is now 90% OFF FOR ONLY TWO DAYS.
I’m hoping that I can get a deal on Sonuscore Orchestra Essentials.
-Erik
___________
superabbit.bandcamp.com
https://www.sonuscore.com/shop/the-orchestra-essentials/
Half price now, but maybe Best Service will sweeten the pot for BF weekend. I can’t speak to Essentials, because I got “the big one”, but it is pretty darned impressive how good it all sounds with a really small footprint (compared to something like HOOPUS at a terabyte).
I’m waiting for LiquidSonics, sonicLAB and Isotonik storewide sales, those usually don’t repeat during the year.
Once the holidays are over, I have been looking at a bunch of technology — including AI technology to scrape prices off of sites, which would give the same functionality that MusicSoftwareDeals has but with more integration of regular user’s reviews and ratings of plugins and products. I couldn’t take on doing that this year — with the time it already took to set up the site plus some health issues, that have since resolved.
But after the holidays, this site will basically go into LinkedMusicians 2.0 mode with a lot of the functionality I’ve been talking about. I would expect it to be delivered by Feb / March. But the reality is, when I’m doing this on a shoestring budget, and I’m doing a lot of it myself, and running my business, it’s hard to hit precise delivery dates. Consider that I’m creating a ecosystem that is a blend of Consumer Reports, a pricing comparison engine, people manually posting deals, social media, a blog and helpful guides. But it’s not going to happen as quickly as if this were an actual business. We’re in search engines, we’re seeing steady growth — even without offering public registration. I expect we’re on track to hit over 10,000 unique visitors per month sometime in 2025.
The more members we have, the more we’ll be able to do worthwhile polls and surveys that can help us all make better decisions when researching sample libraries, plugins, services, etc. My objective is to remove as much bias as possible. There are some polls and surveys I have planned that I cannot vote in because of the rules I have created to weed out potential bias (I have consulted to some developers and I don’t want to allow employees or contractors of developers to vote as they are very likely to have bias, so while I can design and oversee a poll or study, I won’t always be a participant).
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I’m still waiting for the mandolin and guitars to go on sale at Music Sampling. Those sounds pretty darn good to my ears.
Studio One, Windows, RME UFX, Yamaha MSP7