What Occurred with cclarry Yesterday

[peter]

A community member just made a very hostile post on the site, violating the very clearly stated site rules as well as stating false information about what occurred yesterday. Consequently, I think it’s important to be open and address what occurred yesterday with the community.

Yesterday, Larry made a vacation post about Belize linking to his Facebook page. At the end of the post, Larry injected a hyperpartisan political trope about America’s poor being lazy and about the liberal American welfare system. Politics are clearly not permitted in this community. There are three major notices about it and I’ve made that clear to Larry before even working on this community. Politics, religion and discriminatory remarks about various groups of people were not to be part of this site. I’m well aware that Larry has very strong political views and far less than positive feelings expressed about people who don’t share his views on his (linked) Facebook page, but I wasn’t concerned with his Facebook page, but what he posted on this site. He posted hyperpartisan political views in this community and he knows that’s clearly against the rules. This site is about our shared love of music, encouraging one another in the pursuit of music, sharing knowledge, and sharing deals. My response to Larry was very light. I treated him like a friend. My exact words related to his political remarks were:

“Okay, Larry, you’re my friend, but this place will implode if we get into politics.”

That was my only communication with Larry regarding the matter, posted in a reply to his post with the political remarks.  I didn’t write anything more concerning his political remarks. The rest of my post was a pure cut and paste from Perplexity AI with stats about Belize, as he stated the country has zero poverty, which was factually incorrect; their poverty rate is far above 20 percent. I have the full screenshots of all the posts prior to editing. I can post them here if anyone wants to see them. But just a little while ago, a forum member (JIH64) who apparently has been in touch with Larry, posted a personal attack on me with a false claim that Larry never made any political remarks (I later edited them out starting it was a Mod Edit). JIH64 called me a dictator, a hypocrite and other hostile names, comparing me to BandLab. This was Larry’s unedited last post at the site following his political comments about the American welfare system (I have a screenshot of it) following my above comment:

“No offense Pete, but you REALLY need to seek out some help!
You hold yourself in way to high of regard.  I was merely making
a joke, not being political, and you get all “Liberal Useful Idiot Stupid” about it….

It’s pretty sad really. Continue on that road and I’ll have to vacate…

You do know that you can just laugh and not comment right?

SERIOUSLY!”

I PMed Larry after he made that post. He was extremely hostile, and proceeded to call me more names. At no point did I respond in a similar manner. I’ve never called him names in response to his calling me names. I attempted to de-escalate the situation. I sent Larry my personal cell phone number and proposed that he call me. Larry did not respond. I sent him the same info via email, asking him to call me and extended an olive branch. He has not responded to those emails.

I’ve know Larry a long time. I know not to discuss politics with him as he quickly becomes angry when discussing politics or people who don’t agree with him; I learned that very quickly years ago when I attempted a civil conversation on politics and found that wasn’t possible with him. He called me a “godless communist”  and other names (I’m actually a capitalist, and I turned down a major signed rock band due to my Christian faith, who met my wife through a church program I led that brought together the homeless with the upper middle class churchgoers for meals, so I’m not sure about the other remark either; marketing and being a business owner is about as capitalist as it gets, but in any event, mischaracterizing or demonizing people who don’t share ones political views is not something I appreciate, so never attempted to discuss politics with Larry again after that experience years ago). I’ve never once responded in kind or felt the need to name call back to Larry, not once. I just learned to never discuss politics with him. I’ve even made self deprecating jokes, hoping it would break tension and stop him from stereotyping me as  part of a group he has contempt for. But after that one time, it never repeated it. He never called me names again — until now — and we’ve always had a very friendly, supportive relationship. I didn’t edit Larry’s remarks at first, I only edited them later after I deleted the subsequent posts when he started calling me political charged insults, which I thought served no purpose and who wants to keep someone calling them stupid, idiot and other names on their own forum? After JIH64 came and violated three site policies for a lifetime ban, I just unpublished the thread.

If anyone wants to discuss this matter or ask a question or wants a screenshot, just ask it. But please, let’s not use this forum to attack one another, or attack me, or make it about politics. I avoid social media outside of business and a small group of friends because I loathe the incivility that is commonplace in social media. I care about how I treat others and I care about what how others are treated on this site. Before anyone else jumps to a conclusion, why not ask here. I have the screenshots of everything. I have an olive branch stretched out to Larry, and I was never the one calling names or hostile or injecting politics into any of this. I am completely open to Larry returning and I am also hurt on another level as I really did count Larry as a friend. My kids even know his first and last name and even had a laugh singing the Larry Shelby song.  I hope is that Larry will call me and we can talk to one another like friends as I have attempted to facilitate from the beginning. Just prior to the this, my last PM to Larry was asking him what his shirt size was to get him a hoodie with a LinkedMusicians logo. Read the posts I’ve made about him. I wouldn’t have created this community without his friendship.

– Peter

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

33

[peter]

After JIH64 made a hostile post here claiming to defend Larry for the above incident. When I informed him that I had suspended his account for violating a number of the site’s policies this is a sample of his response to me and the reason why I won’t be unsuspending his account:

“…you f*cking retarfed prick. You think I give a flying f*ck if you suspended my account? you think I give a flying f*ck if you bann me because you can’t take it? Like I said in my post to larry, it’s just a forum on the internet, nothing more, nothing less..”

I created this site to be non-toxic. This behavior clearly doesn’t meet that standard. Hopefully, Larry will call and we can find a way forward. I’m not as sure about trusting JIH64 after his post and the above message. I have no history with the guy and he’s incredibly hostile and not very stable. I knew that from other posts that he wants to die. I had reached out to him here and via email after he made a post stating that, but he never responded to me. I do my best to consider that we don’t know what people are dealing with when they post. We don’t know their mental health situation or what’s going on in their lives, so I try to treat others with understanding and empathy. But I also need to make decisions that keep this community from being toxic.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by peter.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

3

[Brian]

Thanks for sharing that info Peter.  I tend to log in and use that wonderful “Activity” menu on the left side. I see everything posted in reverse order, jumping forums and subjects, so I can “catch up quick”.  I caught the jist of the posts.  I did feel that Larry ventured afield of the guidelines that you set up for this site.  Yep- it’s just a forum for people who love music, and maybe some people who have a related shopping disorder *cough*  not me though *cough*  There are places for anything goes exchanges, but this ain’t it, and I am grateful for that.  Cake used to be a really well moderated forum host, until they decided that competitive publishers tools couldn’t be discussed. We all have this common interest and that is what I am here for.  I too hope Larry comes back!  There is room here for everyone.

2

[peter]

I have contacted a couple of forum members, asking if they could reach out to Larry. I have never pulled back the olive branch I extended to him.  I have always treated him like a friend — and I don’t think it’s reality to compare my very gently telling him that we need to avoid political remarks. I was gentle with him because of our relationship not in spite of it. Anyhow, the olive branch to Larry remains. Hopefully, Larry will be open to a conversation. His first post was political and a clear violation of the community rules. Larry’s second post was not only hyperpolitical — violating a key rule — it also included a personal attack on a community member (i.e., idiot, stupid). One phone call. If we can have a civil, hopefully, friendly, conversation and he can agree to avoid politics and avoid insulting community members, he’s back. It’s really that simple.

I really don’t think that BandLab is offering the same. I don’t think Sasor sent Larry his cell number. I’m still treating Larry as a friend and have hope that it can be resolved. Of course, this community will move forward either way. But for anyone thinking I don’t care about Larry, I do.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

1

[Hoppy]

Peter, I appreciate the transparency and the amazing work that you have done on the web site. I also very much appreciate Larry and his prodigious posting of fantastic deals. I’m going to be super bummed if you guys can’t make up and carry on with the friendship. I’m hoping that after a short break to take a breather everything will be smooth sailing again. For goodness sake, Black Friday is just around the corner! We need to bring our A game to the Deals forum!

Soul, Blues, & Jazz on a Wurli or Rhodes

6

[peter]

On Hoppy said

Peter, I appreciate the transparency and the amazing work that you have done on the web site. I also very much appreciate Larry and his prodigious posting of fantastic deals. I’m going to be super bummed if you guys can’t make up and carry on with the friendship. I’m hoping that after a short break to take a breather everything will be smooth sailing again. For goodness sake, Black Friday is just around the corner! We need to bring our A game to the Deals forum!

Soul, Blues, & Jazz on a Wurli or Rhodes is my groove.

I just hope that someone here who is friends with Larry can reach out to him and remind him of all we’ve accomplished and how small this one thing is. We’ve been really supportive friends PMing each other for I don’t know how long — but a long time. He has my number and I have not, at any point, stated any unkind words in return.  I hope that will count for something and help in repairing our relationship. I’m not expecting an apology, but I am expecting respect and confidence that if Larry returns, he can abide by the forum rules. I can even designate that someone else — another of two volunteer moderators can be mediators if there is any future issues. But the policy on NO POLITICS is just as it is written. That’s non negotiable and if Larry returns, he’s going to have to promise to abide by that rule.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

3

[superabbit]

Gee, I’m really sorry to see this.

-Erik
___________
superabbit.bandcamp.com

[peter]

As this site is about our shared love of music, I’ll end this thread on a song I’ve loved since I was a kid and always wanted to cover in my playing days because the message is one I think is important. To me, music is intertwined with my hopes and idealism for how we treat one another.

I also have a related story to go along with this one. A friend of mine is a psychologist who works for a charity, a residence for homeless families. She told me how Todd donated instruments to the home, spent a day with the kids, played music with them. Being a fan of his music, I, of course, loved hearing that he’s also a really decent person. Todd refused to allow the media to take pictures and use it as a photo opp. She sat next to him at dinner and talked to him not knowing anything about his career, besides he was a professional musician (she’s more than a decade younger than me and is into more 90s and current pop). She just thought he was a super nice guy who genuinely cared about the families he spent time with. When I later shared some of his music, it clearly wasn’t to her liking. In any event, I approve of this message.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

1

[joegyork]

You really don’t need this grief Peter. Hope things can be made up but if not it’s clearly not for the want of you trying.

Best wishes

Joe

4

[GoncaloL]

Keep up the excelent work Peter.

Hope both of you can work this out

2

[Teebacca]

Sorry to see this, you’re doing great Peter

2

[peter]

Thanks to everyone for the positive messages.

Let me be clear, I’m not a petty or vindictive person. I think this is small stuff. Yes, I won’t accept the kind of disrespect Larry showed to me, and that will be a condition of his return, no political posts and it’s never okay to hurl insults at any community members, including me. The fact is, Brian PMed me that he read that thread and saw what Larry wrote and was surprised. He told me he thought I handled it very well. That was from reading everything before we discussed it. Brian is going to be moderating the site and I think he’s very well suited for it. He’s amiable, fair and he’s a really kind person. He reached out to me after my departure from Cakewalk Forum and has just been a great guy.

I think it’s difficult for Larry to see me in charge of the community and I think there’s definitely an attitude he had about it. He immediately made things hyper political in responding to me after his political post and just got worse and worse from there. From being a manager, a business owner, a dad and former Little League baseball and softball coach (just first and third base for my kids’ teams, and I loved those times), I’m well aware that when one person’s angry and spouting off, things will never get better if the other joins in. So, I do find it fairly easy to be the cool headed one when someone is that hostile and calling names. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

As far as JIH64 calling me the R word and at least a dozen other insults — mostly with the F word before them — he’s history. I don’t really know the guy. I spent several emails trying to tell him what happened and offered screenshots, he just got worse and worse. The guy clearly has major anger management issues. I could never trust someone like that to be a responsible person in this community when he was as out of control abusive as they come. In the end, he takes his bitterness and rage with him. Life’s too short to deal with that. In Larry’s case, we’ve had years of friendship and mutual encouragement. I can’t see into the future. But I’m going remain hopeful. No doubt, I’m upset at how he treated me, and I would really appreciate an apology, but I’m not going to demand it. What I will demand is respect.  I’ve always shown Larry respect and will continue to do so. He needs to show me respect in return.

So. once more, if any of you have communications with Larry, what I would appreciate is that you be a peacemaker and encourage him to give me a call. I created this community because I really enjoyed all of you so much and I thought that we could be a great encouragement to each other.  I wanted to focus on freebies and maintaining and maintaining and improving the site and have Larry focus on deals (I don’t really love posting deals all of the time like Larry does), so I am temporarily filling in. But I really would prefer to have Larry back as a friend and as the deal GOAT. I would prefer to get him that LinkedMusicians hoodie I PMed about the morning of that unfortunate day.

In the meantime, stay positive. I’ll keep posting deals — and this November, there is a ridiculous amount of deals already. The train will keep rolling, and hopefully Larry will soon be back aboard.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

7

[Brian]

OT but Todd Rundgren was a great inspiration to me. I got “Something/Anything?” in H.S. which I liked, but when I learned more about his talent not only as a musician, but composer and producer “Wizard, A True Star”, my eyes were opened to the possibilities.  Thanks for the story.

1

[peter]

I just received several more emails from JIH64. He just shared that Larry put him up to the post and emails calling me names and that Larry says that I’m a liar and will never return to the site. Jeff also vowed to try to destroy the site by contacting everyone he knows to bad mouth me. Just looking for a little comic relief from the hostility from these guys, clearly they’re not a great fit for a community that promises to not be toxic.

In any event, I am going to block the guy (Jeff, not Larry). But I sent him screenshots of Larry’s political remarks. To those not from the US, the US Welfare system is a liberal program for the poor that Larry referenced. The right believes the program and other social programs should be eliminated, the left believes the program should exist.  It’s a very highly charged political issue and when Larry began making remarks about it, especially knowing how politically focused he can be from his Facebook, PMs and certain rare times over the years where he became political in a post, I wanted to rein him in.  I wrote one sentence as non-confrontationally as possible to accomplish that mission:

“Okay, Larry, you’re my friend, but this place will implode if we get into politics.”

Larry replied:

“No offense Pete, but you REALLY need to seek out some help!
You hold yourself in way to high of regard.  I was merely making
a joke, not being political, and you get all “Liberal Useful Idiot Stupid” about it….

It’s pretty sad really. Continue on that road and I’ll have to vacate…

You do know that you can just laugh and not comment right?

SERIOUSLY!”

I had PMed Larry after that trying to calm him and reason with him, but he was even more hostile and stated that he was done with LinkedMusicians and would never post here again. I told him that I was going to suspend his account until he called me and we could discuss things and I had confidence that he wasn’t going to lash out at me again on the site (I did that before going to bed, because I didn’t want to wake up in the morning to find a bunch of angry name calling posts from Larry). Before going to bed, I edited out his welfare remarks and deleted the subsequent post form me and the post from him where he called me “liberal useful idiot stupid” and mentally ill. I emailed Larry letting him know that I care about our friendship and reminded him of it. I told him that I had to suspend his account after he made a very hostile, policy violating post attacking me, but would restore it if we could have a call and his promise he won’t make political or attack posts in the future. He’s never responded to me.

This is the full text of Larry’s email to Jeff after I explained the above to Jeff and he shared it with Larry. That was prior to my sending screenshots so that Jeff could see for himself:

“Those are complete fabrications.

He sent me his Cell phone number MONTHS AGO,
and that had nothing to do with THIS THREAD!

He’s a liar obviously.

I had already told him in the thread that if he
continued down that road I would vacate.
He PM’d me and was again being political
and told me that he could suspend me.

I told him that I was done and that he didn’t have to.
I said NOTHING political. I made a joke about how
America needed the same welfare system that Belize
has, which is NONE and HE made it about “Politics” posting
a mile long reply on Belize and it’s economy.

I think he’s just really a lost and lonely soul lashing out.
What’s really sad is that I had just GIVEN him licenses
for Symphony 3D and Stratus 3D 1 day before this.

Anyways I won’t be back. I was leery of doing that forum in the first
place because of Pete, and sadly my intuition proved to be right.”

What Larry told him wasn’t the truth. I’m not going to post those PMs. But after Larry’s posts — which I have shared, he PMed me that he was done with the site. I didn’t make any political remarks. I shared that I was setting up a holiday dinner with my cousin who has the same political views as him — trying to get him to calm down and stop seeing me in such a polarizing and hateful manner. I was not discussing politics with him. I was trying to get him to calm down and stop posting politics and politically charged insults directed at me.

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LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

[peter]

The full text of my email reply to Jeff (JIH64) after he called me a “f*cking ret*rded pr*ck” and worse claiming that I censored Larry and claiming I banned Larry. I didn’t censor Larry, I have him a gentle reminder not to get political and he reacted by insinuating I am mentally ill and telling me I was a useful liberal stupid idiot — while still asserting that he wasn’t being political, ironically. I’ve never withdrawn my offer for Larry to call me and work things out and get him back here. Larry has chosen to leave. If he called me and we had a discussion, and agreed not to make political posts or posts attacking me or other members of the community, I would certainly welcome him back. Yes, I very much don’t like that Larry called me names, that he went and falsely called me more names — especially him lying to claim that I was political in this matter, I never once was, I was simply nudging him away from politics. I privately reminded him that many of us have different political views, that my friends and family — even my personal friends in this forum — have different views and we can all get along great, but need to avoid posting political remarks or attacks on other community members.  Here it is:

“You could have used your position with Larry to be a peacemaker.  You could have contacted me. I’ve always been friendly to you. You could have reminded Larry that he and are friends.

Larry start getting into politics with his post about the US welfare system — it’s a very charged issue in the US, as President Elect Trump wants to abolish it and not everyone agrees. I made a one sentence response to Larry to nudge him to not get into politics, he responded by attacking me and getting hardcore political and calling me a useful liberal stupid idiot — or some combination of those words. You can see for yourself from the screenshots.Of course, I documented everything. I am responsible for the moderation policy at the site that Brian will be handling, and I was compiling a presentation to train him with next week. I knew that Larry gets angry really quickly, that’s why I was VERY GENTLE with him in my handling this. I was not being political with Larry, I was being the forum moderator, and I get that he’s not used to that. FTR, I did not edit Larry’s post with the political remarks until after he PMed me that he was leaving the site. I think if  you could put things into perspective, you’ll see that this situation was not giant like Larry is making it out to be. He did that when he left the Cakewalk Forum, and I was concerned about that happening in this case. If you want to be a peacemaker and get Larry talking with me, I will restore your account, but you will need to promise to never use the forum again to attack me or anyone else. If you have that strong of an issue with me, PM me first or write it out in a civil manner following the site policy. Attacks are never okay. I don’t make them on others and you and Larry shouldn’t make them on me.

Larry spends his days posting politically. I don’t. That’s his thing and he can keep at it, I just don’t want it bleeding over to LM, that’s all. This is an enormous over reaction. If you were truly concerned about people, you might even now see that and instead of egging on Larry over this. Again, Brian L, from the Cakewalk forum had PMed me after seeing this and said he was in shocked at how badly Larry was acting, that he should be banned for that. Brian told me that he admired how I handled it. This is all there was to the exchange (beyond Larry’s comments about his vacation that didn’t violate policy and my cut and paste about poverty stats in Belize — which were from Perplexity AI research results):

The sequence of the screenshot is (1) Larry’s Violation, (2) Larry’s Violation Reply (from me) and (3) Larry’s Final Post.

Again, look through those and tell me how I am lying.  You’ve called me a liar, the R word, all sorts of really vile, hostile things and I’ve always been kind and polite to you. I’ve always been kind and polite to Larry. Before this incident, the last PM I had to him was asking him his shirt size for LinkedMusicians hoodie. If you look through this and are a big enough person to admit that you were wrong, I would ask this — use your friendship with Larry to be the voice of reason and friendship, not hate like you’ve been doing with me. FTR, I accept apologies and am not vindictive.

– Peter”

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

11

[lastcall]

Hi Peter, just came by to say that I root for you and that I hope this doesn’t discourage you too much and continue with developing the site and trying to get more members.

I visualize you succeeding and making this forum a better one than Vi-you-know or or the Caviar one, even GearSLUTZ, I mean, whatever vision you have for it 😉

Hugs!

11

[peter]

On lastcall said

Hi Peter, just came by to say that I root for you and that I hope this doesn’t discourage you too much and continue with developing the site and trying to get more members.

I visualize you succeeding and making this forum a better one than Vi-you-know or or the Caviar one, even GearSLUTZ, I mean, whatever vision you have for it 😉

Hugs!

Wow, that is an awesome message and really encouraging. Thanks much!  Whether Larry wants to come back or not, this site will continue; this community is much greater than one person who doesn’t respect the values of civility and friendship that are at the core of this community. I have serious plans for this site to make it better and better and still haven’t even opened it up to the public (we’re seeing 1.4k unique visitors per month and experiencing significant growth) and hopefully,, I can get everything setup by next week for public registration.

I don’t know if it’s going to get to VI-Control numbers — more than half a million visitors per month — but I can easily see us in the tens of thousands of visitors per month by 2025 based on current growth patterns. But what’s more important to me is that we keep the core values of how people are treated with respect, kindness, no shilling, trolling — or politics.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

21

[MrFigg]

Peter, disheartening. You did a great thing starting this forum. You made moves to uphold the rules and were met with hostility and aggression it would seem. I understand the dismay you must be feeling, especially when you are going to lengths to try and resolve the situation. Bottom line is, yeah, we’re not going to get the same amount of deals posted here as long as this continues but personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable. You did the right thing. Everything in life goes out from respecting and taking care of each other.

34

[RSMcGuitar]

Whoa, that’s a lot.

Personally, I get so inundated with political stuff (admittedly, often self inflicted) that I appreciate having somewhere that can be a sanctuary away from it.

On one hand, I get not wanting to censor people, but most of the internet gets pretty toxic when political opinions start flying. Also, there aren’t a lack of avenues to express yourself in that way online. 🤣

If we argue about politics here, where will we convince Fleer how amazing/worth it WUP is?

Anyway, just my 2¢

22

[peter]

On RSMcGuitar said

Whoa, that’s a lot.

Personally, I get so inundated with political stuff (admittedly, often self inflicted) that I appreciate having somewhere that can be a sanctuary away from it.

On one hand, I get not wanting to censor people, but most of the internet gets pretty toxic when political opinions start flying. Also, there aren’t a lack of avenues to express yourself in that way online. 🤣

If we argue about politics here, where will we convince Fleer how amazing/worth it WUP is?

Anyway, just my 2¢

Thanks for the comic relief. I still felt that the thing I did for a bit didn’t get the laughs it was due, so I’m going to subject you to telling you about it again.

UPDATE: I’ve just been threatened by a guy (JIH64) who told me that admitted that Larry put him up to what he did at this site and who called me some pretty terrible names — including a f*cking ret8rd (that wasn’t even the worst). Do I really want to post everything that guy sent me? No. Except to show people how messed up this is. I didn’t sign up for that kind of abuse. And now the guy is threatening me that he — and I guess Larry — are going to destroy this community, that they’re going to contact everyone and tell them that I did these terrible things to Larry, that I was the one who was political, not Larry. I’ve now received more than a dozen hostile and threatening emails from Jeff and I have not been egging him on, he just seems to get angrier and angrier at me. I suppose I will eventually block his email address, but as he’s shared an email from Larry, revealing that he is doing this in coordination with Larry, I have refrained from blocking his email address. Just about the only vulgar cussword he didn’t call me yet is the C word, but I haven’t checked my email in a couple of hours, so who knows. After sending the screenshots, I never heard from him again. I expected he would accuse me of doctoring the screenshots, but nothing.

How much of a surprise to me is it that JIH64 is attacking me? Total.

Up until his policy violating post on the forum and subsequent emails,  I’ve only had very friendly PMs with him. The last post I recall him making on this forum was really troubling. He posted that he’s near death, on morphine and just wants to die as soon as possible. His profile features a banner with an illustration of in a cemetery with a ton of crosses on graves. It’s pretty dark, and it’s clear that the man is not mentally in a good place. So as soon as I saw his post about wanting to die, I PMed him and then emailed him. But he never responded. That was weeks ago. Never a word since then.  I wondered if he died or maybe he’s just seriously mentally ill and it was some kind of episode or pattern of behavior, but the first post from him since then was his post in Larry’s thread attacking me then even more venomous in a series of emails where he was as vicious as it gets, just over the top hateful, pure venom  (I quoted some of it, like him calling me a f*cking ret*rd). So Larry was behind Jeff’s attacks the entire time, and this guy has been believing that Larry is honest with him when Larry has been lying the entire time. This completely changing my stance on giving Larry another chance. This changes my stance on having Larry back to this community. I no longer think it’s a good idea.

Now, prior to receiving the latest round of hate emails from JIH64, I reached out to a couple of people in this community that Larry is fond of, but after everything that’s occurred, I no longer feel I could ever trust Larry. He’s just far too malicious and just not a stable individual.

There’s another dimension, after all this, we all love Larry’s prolific deal posting, but lets be honest, we know that someone who spends several hours a day doing this — at all hours of the night, it’s simply not a normal, healthy behavior. I have, on many occasion, tired to persuade Larry to do less posting, but it never seemed to register. He clearly has some kind of compulsion to post, and I can’t help but feel like encouraging him is taking advantage of him when we know he’s not well. Larry has been living with his brother’s family and I have offered many times to set up a tip jar for him, which he’s never responded to. There’s no question that he’s not doing this stuff for money.  But the more he’s revealed about his life, the more it just seems exploitive to dismiss his issues because it benefits us to have him spending several hours a day prolifically posting. Now, not feeling good about Larry’s behavior and knowing that this is all there is to his life — he did share at Cakewalk Forums that he hasn’t spoken to his kids in more than 20 years, and I encouraged him to prioritize that. But it just underscores that things are not well in his life and we can keep enjoying his obsessive posting and not really care about the human being — but know that I realized I was ready to have him back here when I don’t trust him, I don’t think he’s a person of any integrity, he’s proven malicious and toxic, and still you know, I was strongly going to ignore all of that, why? Because hey, it fuels this site and makes my life easier. Honestly, that wouldn’t make me feel good about my own ethics and if Larry did call me, I would want to have an honest talk with him about that. Not mean spirited, not getting even or going tit for tat, but just telling him, I don’t think spending so many hours posting every day is healthy and I would prefer, if he did come back here, he could scale back his posting to give his life some sense of balance.

This site will continue with or without him. Even if he engages in a malicious attack on the site and my character and lies about what he did and what I did, I am committed to LinkedMusicians. It’s going to be far more valuable than a deals section as time goes on. And the deals section will still be excellent. I will commit time to it and I hope others can pitch in too. But I’m finally starting to realize that I don’t think there’s a place for Larry here. He doesn’t reflect the values and I’m not going to use him just because he’s so prolific at posting. I have more respect for him than that, and that’s not who I am.

I invite others to weigh in.  Be candid with your opinion. You certainly shouldn’t be concerned with agreeing with me. Say what you really believe. I will listen and consider what others have to say.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

4

[peter]

The post I referenced from JIH64 is live on the site. The post contained a few sentences above this about not liking some changes I made on the site and then this part- – maybe it’s just really dark humor, but I did reach out to him, just to make sure he was okay:

“…I’m suffering from the side effects of pain relief medication including Morphine patches. I can’t type much, it’s hard, involuntary movements in my hands and fingers, can’t read big blocks of text, I just give up and hope for a swift death, anyway, I’m F**ked.”

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

[peter]

After recruiting Fleer to contact Larry and then finding out that Larry was behind putting Jeff JIH64 up to hate posting on this site and sending me more than a dozen hate filled emails entirely based on lies Larry told him about what happened with Larry claiming that I had become political and have abused my power with the site, I have made the decision that it’s not realistic to bring Larry back to this site. He doesn’t share the values of respect for others, for not using this site to talk politics, for not being toxic. I will share the final email I sent to Larry. I didn’t spend time carefully crafting it. I wrote exactly what I feel.

Here it is:

After seeing that you were egging on Jeff JIH64 by lying about what you did and being extremely malicious, I cannot in good conscience ever allow you back at the site. I’m sorry for how things turned out. But I have come to the conclusion that I don’t think you’re a very good person. I think you were never a friend based on that email. I think you are a fraud. And I won’t have you back to use you because you post prolifically, I don’t want to use you. Everyone knows that your obsessive level of posting isn’t mentally healthy. As much as I’m pissed off at you, I have enough respect and empathy for you that I would not use you. I think most people aren’t focused on you as a human being and your mental health, they enjoy the fruit of your obsessive labor and, and on one level, realize that this isn’t a mentally healthy way for you to spend your time, but they enjoy what you do so much, that they put all of that aside. I was about to do that for my own convenience, when it occurred to me, it’s not right for you and it’s not the right thing for me to do.  It’s sad that you spend your life doing that, and I’ve tried to persuade you to do more with your life. You shared with me you have kids that you haven’t spoken to in more than two decades. Take this time and reach out to them. That’s meaningful. This really isn’t.

 

Now, if you wanted to call me up as a friend, I would welcome it. But I’m not going to use you when I no longer think you’re a decent person and I’d be lying if I said I could ever trust you again. If you wanted to speak as a friend, while I do have a lot of very negative feelings about you, I do feel sad about your life and have compassion for you. BTW, when you wrote that pure BS that I’m lonely, are you aware that I”m married — once, never cheated, married to my best friend that I met 28 years ago — with two kids. I can’t go to the bathroom and be alone — our family cat follows me in (seriously). Pure BS. The lies you tell. I really loathe people lying. Maybe somehow in your imagination you created a fiction you think is reality, but that’s not reality.

 

I do wish you better things in your life and that you spend your life more productively, more meaningfully. I think your enjoying vacations is great. I hope you do more things to enrich your life and don’t just spend it making deals posts and posts on Facebook about politics that no one is reading or liking. It’s pointless. Live life. It’s short and gone before you know it.

 

Regards,
Peter

 

 

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

141

[thor]

You did nothing wrong Peter, he was warned, you asked very professional for stopping the behaviour and he gone and really violated the core rules of this space he has no footing in this as it’s plain and simple his fault. You’re a fab human and do an amazing job here to create a space without this unnecessary vile and selfish behavior just like a little teenie…

1

[Hoppy]

It’s a shame that it ended so acrimoniously with Larry. Thinking back to the insane amount of deal posting that Larry did over the years, you could certainly make the argument that his obsessive posting had perhaps become a bit unhealthy. We all enjoyed the benefits of his compulsion with no questions asked as to the amount of his time it consumed. That said, Larry did have somewhat of a hero status on the Cakewalk deals forum. If you don’t have a lot going on, this could provide a sense of community and a good self estimate bump. I think Larry really liked the roll of king deal poster. In the big picture, there are far worse addictions than finding deals and posting them. It’s sad to see Larry go, but I am in 100% agreement with you Peter that this forum should remain a refuge from politics and divisiveness. When I stop by Linked Musicians I want to focus on making music!

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Hoppy.

Soul, Blues, & Jazz on a Wurli or Rhodes

2

[peter]

On Hoppy said

It’s a shame that it ended so acrimoniously with Larry. Thinking back to the insane amount of deal posting that Larry did over the years, you could certainly make the argument that his obsessive posting had perhaps become a bit unhealthy. We all enjoyed the benefits of his compulsion with no questions asked as to the amount of his time it consumed. That said, Larry did enjoy somewhat of a hero status on the Cakewalk deals forum. If you don’t have a lot going on, this could provide a sense of community and a good self estimate bump. I think Larry really enjoyed the roll of king deal poster. In the big picture, there are far worse addictions than finding deals and posting them. It’s sad to see Larry go, but I am in 100% agreement with you Peter that this forum should remain a refuge from politics and divisiveness. When I stop by Linked Musicians I want to focus on making music!

Soul, Blues, & Jazz on a Wurli or Rhodes is my groove.

If Larry did call me to acknowledge that he made some mistakes, and I had confidence that he could abide by the rules — or that he would at least make a serious effort — I would be open to him returning. I’d also want him to scale back his posting and not make it his entire life. Anyhow, I pulled this thread back. I realize, I’m very strong with transparency, but I also lead with my heart, and still see that Larry is a person I’ve considered a friend and do care about even though I’m incredibly disappointed in all of this. But could it change with a heart to heart conversation and a commitment? Yes. But I don’t believe that’s very likely.

I’ll just share this. My kids are 19 and 15. My wife has told me that I’m a “terrible disciplinarian.” She says, “You’re good at making firm rules, but the kids know how to pull at your heart strings to get out of it.” Last week, I had some left over chicken on a plate on the table. I went to grab some raspberries, and before you know it, my cat jumped on the table and shoved his face into my chicken. I told my wife, “I planned on giving him some of that chicken, until he did that! I told him that you just blew your chance to get some of this chicken!” My wife said, “I know you too well, he ended up getting chicken.” Touché.  That is the real me. I am really good at creating rules and yeah, my heart causes me to yearn to give people — and small domestic animals too apparently — second chances.

So yeah, no one would be happier than me if there was a happy ending to this. There’s no question about it. And yeah, I was more bothered for kids when Jeff was calling me an f’ing R word — he called me a bunch of other names, but the R word really bummed me out not about me, but that he dehumanizes people (my daughter volunteers with intellectually disabled kids, and talks about how kids her age use that term — and has cried about hearing them use it and I feel the way she does). But, of course, I don’t want abusive people in my life or anyone elses and both of these individuals are elderly men who are abusive and unlikely to change their ways. Would I love to see believable apologies and give a second chance? Abso-freaking-lutely I would. Although, I realize that their problematic behavior will likely repeat. The upside of it is that it’s not a shock the second time.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

3

[peter]

As Larry is contacting people from this community and falsely claiming that I was pushing my politics on him, threatening him with a ban and stating that I was “lashing out” at him, the best I can do is share what really occurred so that all of you can draw your own conclusions.

These were my PMs with Larry following his political posts. I apologize to anyone offended by profanity. I definitely swear IRL, and don’t find it to be a big deal. I realize that some people do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by peter.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by peter.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

2

[peter]

cclarry and his pals are doing a thread at Cakewalk hating on me. Larry lies about why HE QUIT THIS SITE. I didn’t ban him. I told him that I needed to talk with him before he could post again, after he made a post calling me a “stupid, useful liberal idiot.” What I didn’t share is that years  earlier, when Larry quit Cakewalk Forum after making an antisemitic conspiracy post about Jewish music company CEOs and two forum members called his post out as crazy, I went to contact him via Facebook and discovered that his Facebook wall was filled with obsessive racist, racist xenophobic, antisemitic, anti-Muslim, homophobic, transphobic, extremist far-right and white nationalist figure reposts. Crazy, hateful rants. Just not normal stuff.

So, after reaching out to him, and persuading him to come back to Cakewalk Forum, I shared that I am from a part Jewish family, that my middle-name is in honor of my grandfather, a WWII veteran, who was a Jew. I shared also that while my family is conservative, and I have voted for politicians of both parties, that I support Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and public schools, so I am liberal (but an independent who is not aligned with any political party), as Larry obsessively posts that he hates liberals (referring to them as “demon rats” and “evil”) and makes antisemitic posts. He replied by calling me, a “god-hating, baby-murdering, Marxist.”  I truly didn’t see that coming. I asked him that we keep our conversations focused on music in the future and we did until Larry brought his hateful views to this site.

But I didn’t ban him for making his post. He resigned from the site after I posted that he was my friend, but political posts are off limits (exactly as quoted above). I reached out to @bapu and @fleer, asking them to attempt to contact Larry and persuade him to come back. I had sent emails to Larry for months asking hm to consider coming back to the site and suggesting that he call me on my mobile phone.

Then I became aware that Larry made three Facebook posts that he made that were so problematic, I was no longer interested in him returning. One was him re-posting a hateful speech by the leader of what the FBI refers to as one of the most violent hate groups in the US, The Proud Boys, Larry then posted that he did crowd control against the “demon rats” but doesn’t specify the extremist group that he was with. Perhaps the Proud Boys — I really don’t know. The other post, was a list of high ranking members of the federal government who are Jewish each featuring a star of David next to each one that mimics the stars that the Nazis had concentration camp members wear on their uniforms.

I sent Larry an email about that. I told him that I was shocked and disappointed that it could post that and I would  no longer be reaching out to him trying to persuade him to return to LinkedMusicians, that I am done with him.

That’s all there is. The truth. I have a special contempt for bigots and liars. I realize that on these forums, people often post in anonymity. We don’t know much about one another. What I learned about this man and his hateful, extremist worldview was a surprise to me and the polar opposite of my values. The idea that it was merely partisan politics is a pure lie. I have invited developer friends here. One is conservative. We’ve never had an argument. We get along great and regularly have friendly discussions about music, and have discussed politics in the past, but never insulting one another. Always respectful. Always treating each other as friends. What  I don’t have room for are bigots.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

[peter]

If anyone saw the troll hate posts today with the username FortuneEssayCat, that account was quickly suspended and the IP address blocked.

I don’t think I’ve ever shared this, but on a regular basis, Larry and he’s friends (for certain, JIH64) create accounts here with usernames mocking me and make insulting posts. After the hate crew did a hate thread on Cakewalk Forum only intended to take cheap shots at our community and me personally — including coming up with a really non-clever name to mock me: FortuneEssayCat (being clever is not one of their talents; I admit this name is so clunky, I actually came up with some better insulting names with the same idea, but yeah, I’ll refrain from sharing them!) — one of them created an account here with the username FortuneEssayCat to troll me this morning and proceeded to do so. I’m not sure if any of you saw those posts, I happened to be at the site and caught them pretty quickly. I suspended their account and blocked their IP address.

It’s become like Groundhog Day with these guys. I’m embarrassed to even share this reality beyond this community. These are 70-something-year-old men. Clearly, they’re not a fit for a community committed to non-toxic behavior. Who the heck does this stuff?

It’s very easy to block IP addresses for this site, which I always do with abusive members and the hate crew and their attack accounts. I’ve blocked Larry, JIH64 and the other accounts they’ve created when it was clear that they were creating additional user accounts to troll. The really weird thing about these guys — beyond what’s readily apparent — is that even when their IPs are blocked, they still keep returning literally hundreds of times with the banned IP address. That’s abnormal. It’s obsessive. It’s also sad. The FortuneEssayCat IP has returned around 30 times today AFTER having their IP address blocked. I would think that most people — even those not very technology savvy — could figure out that the block is not going to go away.

Oh well. This is the kind of stuff you get when you create an online community. But it is incredibly ironic that these people ever saw themselves as a fit for a community premised on being non-toxic.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

Check out my music. 

1

[LinkedMusicians]

Just to close this, in the Summer of 2025, a LinkedMusicians member made me aware of beyond Larry posting anti-LGBTQ, racist, antisemitic, and anti-Muslim posts, he reposted multiple videos of white supremacists, a neo-Nazi hate group leader, and one chart identifying with photos and names, Jewish-Americans that work at a high level in the US federal government, each of them with a star of David next to them mimicking the star of David’s Jews were forced to wear in the Nazi concentration camps. It was vile and I cannot soon forget it. Larry also posted of doing crowd control against the “demon rats” with an organization that I can only assume was a hate group.

I emailed Larry to let him know that I witnessed these posts of his and was incredibly disappointed and that I would no longer welcome him back as a member of LinkedMusicians unless he denounced his racist and bigoted views. I regret that he was a ever a member of this community as his values are the antithesis of my own; however, I was unaware of the extent of his extremist views. FTR, this is not because he hold far-right views. I have friends who hold left, right, and center political views — and that includes friends who are members of this community. My family members hold right and left leaning political views.

I do not, however, have friends who hold racist and bigoted views and I do not know Larry in real life and I’ve never even had a phone conversation with the man. After learning more about him, I regret referring to him as a friend, as I had no idea of the extent of his views on race and religion — or even advocating political violence and invading US allies like Canada to take them over — until seeing his Facebook posts over the summer of 2025.  I draw a strong line against all of that. If anyone doubts what I am writing about his Facebook posts, they are publicly available, as he has shared his Facebook page many times at the Cakewalk Deals Forum and several times during the several weeks where he was a member of this community.

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