Question: Will You Hold Off Buying NI Products and Kontakt Libraries?

[LinkedMusicians]

The big question of the day: Are you going to hold off buying Native Instruments products and Kontakt sample libraries during this time due to their preliminary insolvency, even if there are huge sales?

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3

[jude77]

I guess it depends.  If someone like OTS had a big sale I would be all over that.  Likewise if it was an obscure instrument I had always been looking for I’d be in (“Oh wow! Look here’s a model of a 1966 Farfisa organ with a dead middle C note just like John Lennon once kicked over”).  Otherwise I’ll hold off.  One the other hand I’ll probably still keep trawling places like Pianobook for free instruments.

As for Izotope and Brainworx, I’ll probably lay low until the smoke clears.

2

[Brian]

Definitely.

1

[peter]

On jude77 said

I guess it depends.  If someone like OTS had a big sale I would be all over that.  Likewise if it was an obscure instrument I had always been looking for I’d be in (“Oh wow! Look here’s a model of a 1966 Farfisa organ with a dead middle C note just like John Lennon once kicked over”).  Otherwise I’ll hold off.  One the other hand I’ll probably still keep trawling places like Pianobook for free instruments.

As for Izotope and Brainworx, I’ll probably lay low until the smoke clears.

I thought I’d switch to my Peter username for this, as ideally, I want to use the LM account to share information and more official positions and put posts more in the realm of opinion with my name, especially for non members sake. After delving into the financial situation with NI and seeing the incredible amount of debt that they have, I think it’s fair to say that there are many scenarios that are possible.

My instinct and experience lead me to suspect that creditors will want to sell of all of the non-core business that NI has, encompassing their acquisitions like Plugin Alliance and Brainworx and their DJ line and let NI focus on Kontakt, sample libraries, and the Kontakt ecosystem. Now that doesn’t mean that will happen, but I think that’s a likely scenario. I think it makes sense because creditors — and they really are the ones calling ths shots now — are going to want to maximize how much money they can get back, and a fire sale is going to mean a very small fraction of what’s owed, whereas selling off non-core business and having NI focus on the core business can potentially give them the most return. However, there’s also the possibility that the administrator finds a very attractive offer for Kontakt and creditors decide it’s the best option.

But as for iZotope, Plugin Alliance and Brainworx, I suspect those companies or their products are almost certainly going to be sold off, so, personally, I would not buy any new licenses from these companies at the moment. The product could be eliminated in 2026 or be sold to a company that goes in a different direction, or subscription only.  It also could be sold as assets, the way Cakewalk was sold to BandLab, where the buyer has no obligation to honor existing customer contracts. Things are in limbo right now for every product affiliated with NI. My take is that the least risk of everything NI touches are Kontakt libraries and the most risk are every other NI product — especially hardware products — plus iZotope, Plugin Alliance, and Brainworx products.

Now, I would be less concerned about third-party Kontakt libraries from trusted developers like Orange Tree Samples (and disclosure, but I think most of you know it; I have done paid consulting to Orange Tree Samples and am friends with its founder). I’m 100 percent confident that OTS will remain dedicated to their customer base regardless of what happens with NI. I’ve also consulted and am friends with the leadership over at 8Dio / SoundPaint, and I think they’re very well positioned to handle this situation for their customers. If the worst case scenario happened and Kontakt ceased to exist — which I seriously doubt would ever happen because it’s a very successful and profitable product — 8Dio is in the position — like Cinesamples — of having their own sampler that their 8Dio customers can transition over to.

I think the more realistic concern is that if creditors (and that would mean the administrator) decide to sell of Kontakt, it could  be bought by a company that only offers it subscription only, like Apple or BandLab. That to me, would be a scenario I, as a longtime Kontakt user, would  not like.

LinkedMusicians Founder. Your friend who keeps the beat.

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4

[TomEatsTheUkulele]

“For shure”… 🙁

1

[bselack]

I was hoping for an early “Sounds of Summer” so I could upgrade Complete one last time 🙂

 

2

[fretman]

I’m just glad I recently replaced my old keyboard (with obsolete drivers) to Arturia rather than NI’s Kontrol  Keyboards.

Studio One, Windows, RME UFX, Yamaha MSP7

1

[LinkedMusicians]

On fretman said

I’m just glad I recently replaced my old keyboard (with obsolete drivers) to Arturia rather than NI’s Kontrol Keyboards.

I was explaining this situation to my wife yesterday and I told her how glad that I am that I don’t own one of NI’s keyboards, because I think they’re great, but I didn’t get one because of how they made past ones obsolete.

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2

[anxiousmofo]

I ~might~ buy Absynth 6 if it went on significant sale, as I was holding out for the next Komplete and subsequent SOS sale but am not feeling confident there will be another even if NI remains afloat to some degree. I fear the pricing and bundling models will change, which will definitely make me intensely less interested in NI products.

Tangled roots perplex her ways.

3

[MagicRuss]

I was holding out for the next Komplete as well.

2

[anxiousmofo]

On LinkedMusicians said

On fretman said

I’m just glad I recently replaced my old keyboard (with obsolete drivers) to Arturia rather than NI’s Kontrol Keyboards.

I was explaining this situation to my wife yesterday and I told her how glad that I am that I don’t own one of NI’s keyboards, because I think they’re great, but I didn’t get one because of how they made past ones obsolete.

The official LinkedMusicians account

Still holding strong on my 15-plus-year-old MPK61.

Tangled roots perplex her ways.

1

[LinkedMusicians]

I regularly have chats with sample developers. If you could send any message to Kontakt sample developers right now, what would it be? If there was a really appealing Kontakt sample library — let’s say it’s a Kontakt Player library — with a deep discount that interested you, would you buy it now or hold off until there’s more clarity regarding the NI insolvency?

For those who haven’t been following along with NI, they’re currently in preliminary insolvency with a insolvency administrator leading the analysis of the company and making decisions on the best way to maximize creditors’ interests. In other words, his job is to ensure that creditors can recover the maximum amount from NI. NI senior management is responsible for ensuring the day-to-day operation of the company. The process typically takes a few months or less. During this time, the German government guarantees employee salaries for up to 3 months. We could have answers within the next several weeks. The appetite for buying the various parts of NI will play a large role into that timing. If the administrator finds that other companies are willing to be a good price for the entire company or parts of the company, that could result in having the answers a lot sooner. Personally, as someone who relies on Kontakt very heavily and a very high percent of my music making expenditures have been in NI products and Kontakt sample libraries, I would love to see the development team and the team that works with sample developers remain intact whether it’s in the form of a smaller Kontakt focused NI or sold off to another company like Fender, Roland, Image-Line (and hopefully not a company like Apple or BandLab that would almost certainly make the software subscription-only).

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2

[mira]

Hello dear Peter  i myself now stop buying any kontakt library… and wait few weeks, what happend next with NI.. Im heavy userer on NI product almost from start and have Machine Studio and S25 komplete kontrol keyboard mini + many instruments from NI, 8Dio, heavyocity esp choirs, strings etc.. which i bought during many years….

same with Plugin Alliance – have many and core of this plugins which i take during years

Izotope – only what i will be really miss will be IRIS synth 🙂

For me was little sad, that first who come this info was CDM and no NI… it takes 3+ days to CEO of NI make some info in blog…

 

anyway many thanks for all info, your work on this thread, i think almost all of us are now hit…..

Offer nice weekend too all

/ if i will be buy library – from third party, it will be 8Dio due to soundpaint i have some choirs like

Liberis Angelic Choir

which i love and all singers solo.. and if kontakt will be die – which i dont think – i think dear Mr. Troels if i remeber it right make all to Soundpaint….

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by mira.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by mira.

2

[patrickwichrowski]

If the price is good, why not?

 

 

New album soon!

[url]https://linktr.ee/patrickwichrowski[/url]

[LinkedMusicians]

I think the reality is that many music producers don’t look at things even-handedly. I get it, most are not very business savvy. But looking at this objectively, think about the companies that we buy sample libraries from. The vast majority are small businesses. Granted, NI is a small business by US standards, not European standards, but its total annual revenue in 2023 was estimated between $78.5 million and $95 million with an EBITDA of aorund $25 million. That’s like a rounding error for Microsoft or Apple. UVI has around 20 employees and is estimated to do several million USD in revenue annually. Now look at the other sample developers that we use and they’re only a fraction of the size of UVI. We don’t know their financial condition or value. Orchestral Tools is an excellent developer a lot of us are customers of and they’re estimated to be valued at several million. But the vast majority of the indie developers we buy from are likely worth $1 million USD or a lot less. Most of the indie Kontakt developers likely have annual revenue of less than $1 million. I know of some well known ones and they do between $250,000 to $500,000 in annual revenue.

Even while NI is in preliminary insolvency, I think Kontakt is a safer choice than a small developer’s proprietary plugin. Why? Because Kontakt is the most valuable part of NI. If the administrator dissolves NI, he’s still going to sell off NI — there is virtually no chance that the creditors would want to walk away and leave that potential money on the table. I would be very surprised if Kontakt doesn’t survive this. I’m not a betting man, but I think the easy money is betting on Kontakt surviving. The only question is, where will Kontakt end up? But if a high-quality sample developer has a killer sale on their Kontakt libraries right now, I would buy it.

And take this into consideration too — if you’re a sample developer that exclusively produces Kontakt libraries and Kontakt ceased to exist, you know that the developer would surely be converting those sample libraries to another format, perhaps something like UVIor even their own plugin. I am not speaking on behalf of Orange Tree Samples, but I can assure you that, knowing Greg as I do, if Kontakt were to cease in three months, Orange Tree Samples would be converting their libraries to another format. I’ve seen a lot of posts on forums and subreddits with people stating that the money they’ve spent on Kontakt libraries would be completely wasted if Kontakt ceased to exist. Now, I don’t think that scenario is very likely, but if Kontakt did shut down, I know that the better Kontakt developers would be working on formatting their sample libraries for another platform. No doubt, it would cost money to do and they would need to fund that, but as someone who has spent thousands on Kontakt sample libraries, if Kontakt ceased to exist, I would absolutely welcome the opportunity to pay developers of the libraries I own for the same libraries in another, viable format.

But if you’re buying sample libraries embedded in a player from some small sample library developer, don’t kid yourself into a false sense of security; they could close tomorrow, the developer could go broke, close the business, die, and your plugin would only be worthwhile until you started having issues with it. This is why I greatly prefer buying from indie sample developers in the Kontakt ecosystem. NI was big enough to fund a great sampler while the developers focused purely on making great sample libraries and not the software that plays them.

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3

[fretman]

If the price is good, I’ll still buy Kontakt instruments. If OT has a new instrument, I’ll buy that at its introductory price sight unseen.

Studio One, Windows, RME UFX, Yamaha MSP7

3

[jude77]

On fretman said

If the price is good, I’ll still buy Kontakt instruments. If OT has a new instrument, I’ll buy that at its introductory price sight unseen.

Studio One, Windows, RME UFX, Yamaha MSP7

Ditto.  In my world OTS=high quality.  And like Peter says in his post above yours, I feel confident that if Kontakt were to tank (which I don’t think it will) people such as OTS are still sitting on a strong source of income in the libraries they already have developed.  It just makes sense that they could continue in business by porting to another system.

2

[LinkedMusicians]

I think Kontakt developers would do well to put out statements during this time about contingency plans should Kontakt cease to exist. Now, I don’t think Kontakt will cease to exist. NI could cease to exist, but Kontakt is too valuable to just shut down; it’s the most successful sampler today by leaps and bounds. Consider that NI not only makes money from selling Kontakt and Komplete, but from developers who license their libraries for Kontakt Player. I’m confident that many other players in this industry would love to pick up Kontakt, from other DAW makers to the big music conglomerates. Consider how successful it is across all of the major DAWs. One can easily see the benefits that Apple, Yamaha, Roland, Fender, and Image-Line would have from adding Kontakt to their product portfolio.  Yamaha could swallow up a much more successful sampler than HALion and greatly expand its market. Fender could see Kontakt as a way to expand its brand in the digital world far beyond what it can do with the former Presonus products. Bandlab might see purchasing Kontakt as their foot in the door to the pro market that they failed to do with Cakewalk Sonar. Splice could see the acquisition as strengthening and upgrading their reach with pro and advanced pro-DAW using amateur market, which the Spitfire acquisition helped them gain.

Of all of the pieces of NI, Kontakt is the one that has the least chance of going away. It is Native Instruments’ crown jewel. The only question is what company will own it. Will it be part of a restructured NI or part of another company.

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1

[anxiousmofo]

God forbid Apple steals Kontakt away like they did Alchemy. That would be hell.

Tangled roots perplex her ways.

3

[Fleer]

Then again…

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